Infinite Canvas, Infinite Schmanvas

The above from the fantastic site Cover Browser. Thanks, Terry.

Sorry I've been dark for a bit: a bout of actual, big time, paying work (shock! horror!) has kept me low, backing up my Robots and Monsters production, my comic work, and fun, too, dammit. I'd be lying if I also didn't cop to a bit of blog fatigue: about two years of being steadily into it, and after a while, a realization creeps into your head.

"Ugh. I just THOUGHT that. I have to WRITE about it, too?"

But what the hell. I've gotta give you SOMETHING to read while pretending to work, right?

I'll start by admiting that not ALL of my non-blogging time is spent working, per se. Some of it is spent "working", while Skyping with colleagues, and the discussion of
web comics and Scott McCloud came up, more specifically, his new (now, old) web comic, The Right Number. I found a discussion of web comics, especially amongst people not in the echol chamber (and also potential consumers) to be informative. Present at the chat are myself, Matt Rebholz, at UT Austin for his Masters in Printmaking, Terry Salmond, a San Francisco film maker, and Rob Ford, Director of Technology for a school dsitrict in Massachusetts, and webmaster for Kaiju Big Battel.

The thread picks up on The Right Number...

Joe:
I want the interface to be an intregal part of the story? Otherwise, it's just a schtick.
Rebholz
I see your point...What if the next panel was somehow integrated into the previous panel?...but that might get even schtickier.
Joe
The teeny next panel just throws me off without providing anyting else than just "Look what I did."
Terry
Yeah...I think if it was integrated a bit more
Rebholz
If he had to put a picture frame or window or something in every single panel
Joe
Plus,if the notion of 'zooming in' is intregal to the story...tell me why
Terry
Right.
Rebholz
Maybe it rhymes with this idea of the guy homing in on his perfect mate via his crazy algorythm phone number thing... I dont have a problem w/ the zoom
I think it does a nice job of approximating the sensation of looking from one panel to the next in a print comic...like your actual focus is fixed, so you cant shift it from one panel to the next...McCloud is much more of a scholar than a creator I think
Joe
Rebholz
Indeed....web comics are hard
Joe
true dat
Rebholz
joe knows that
Terry
This seems like a way of feeling out what works and what doesn't
Rebholz
The great thing about the interface is that it didnt require any movement within the browser window
Joe
True...McCloud goes on and on about "the infinite canvas", but I HATE those type of web comics
Rebholz
It becomes an inconvenience to experience it
Joe
The experience becomes about the creation rather than the story which to my mind...
is wack.
Rebholz
You need to somehow counterbalance or make the audience forget about the loss of the comic as physical object, which is a very important part of the experience....
like McCloud points out, part of the magic of comics is the compression and expansion of time- being able to see a whole span of time in one instant, by surveying an entire page for exaample
Joe
...and also the backwards and forwards flow
Rebholz
exactly
Joe
I like artists that add things you can go back and find later..."How did that fire start?"...
Rebholz
Like Ware
Joe
"Oh, he dorpped the cigar three pages ago."...Damn, I'd like just take this conversation and blog it
Terry
We'll just be outed as dorks.


And on webcomics in general:

Joe
Joe Q. Public doesn't find advertising to be as offensive as paying 25 cents...weird!
Rob
Right, but for the content provider it's a similar idea.
Rebholz
Its no suprise that people are more willing to endure advertising than pay for a product.
Joe
No...but as a sea change, just like having creator USING the web instead of just put print comics online, it is a difference in thinking about "selling" work...
a lot of comic artists still don't feel like real creators until some schlub plunks down 4 bux for a hard copy. Its psychological.
Rebholz
Do you feel that way?
Joe
Sometimes, but im getting over it
Rebholz
I think thats natural
Joe
It's how we were brought up
Rebholz
It goes back to the appeal of a comic AS object, if you value the actual physical comic, than of course youll feel more validated if you can hold something you've made
...I dont think its a bad thing nessecarily.


Beyond the fact that I talk too much, these are all very very smart guys, and what came through in the discussion was the web comics have still not broken through the main stream to arrive as a form worth paying attention to, yet. People can talk Penny Arcade and PVP all they want, but look at the content: it's so niche and concave, you can see yourself reflected in the opposite wall. We have yet to see a real breakout, popualr webcomic, along the lines of a Maus or a Persopolis. Could it be about form?

The chat has two seemingly disparate threads: that the notion of Infinite Canvas is tiresome and not helpful to the enjoyment of the comic, and that the physical comic is desirable, but ALSO that the desire is there NOT just for print-comics-that- happen-to-be-online, which is what most web comics are. To my mind, this all means that comic artists, and especially web comic artists, need to stop bitching about being the underclass of artists, being so 'disrespected' and such, and need to start creating great, compelling ways to view their stories. And while there's been some great experiments, it sure hasn't happened yet.

To round out this talk, I present Dr. Nordten, the fantastic web comic by Thomas Gronle-Legron and Holger Marsielle, two German guys I just so happened to present with in Seoul. These guys may be having the conversation that we in America with all our Scott McClouds should be having. And once I get Thomas to send me a link, I'll be posting their 3D version. Maybe the future of comics...lies in microfilm?